1. mortopher's Avatar
    I don't care bout it mate, I only came here to thank dough boy for his original post, I don't need prove anything to anyone of you nerdy chumps I've explained exactly what I did and am very greatful rather than being paranoid about things i dont understand i gave it a go. my phone was OTB 3GS new bootrom never used iTunes umbrella or any of that so stop posting an get breaking!!
    Post a screenshot like I requested.
    2010-08-29 06:56 AM
  2. soulthoughts's Avatar
    Willzoom might need a vacation.
    2010-08-29 06:57 AM
  3. Orby's Avatar
    Okay...um, no. The verification has taken place since 3.0. Blobs have been required for the 3GS since then.

    4.0.2 only patched up the PDF exploit hole in Mobile Safari.
    Yeah... SHSH blob requirements have been coded into the S5L8920 from its devices' launches (iOS 3.0/3.1.1; 3GS/iPT3G).

    There's only one thing (that I'm aware of) that's changed in 4.0.2/3.2.2 from 4.0/4.0.1/3.2.1 for all devices, and that's how Apple manages loading PDFs and making sure stack overflows are correctly identified before they become "dangerous." Nothing about inserting ECIDs or any other "unique identifier" in ways they weren't already there before.

    EDIT: I guess I'd be willing to agree to disagree as well, there are far better things to fight over than how a device functions FFS.
    2010-08-29 06:57 AM
  4. jkmonkey's Avatar
    Is it at all possible that Apple is recycling ECID's from phones that they have completely scraped instead of using as refurb's, and that's why these "brand new" phones already have shsh's saved?
    2010-08-29 07:02 AM
  5. Trooper Sam's Avatar
    I wonder if in other parts of the globe, the term "refurb" has the same legal weight it does in the US. Perhaps elsewhere, these devices can be cleaned up and sold as new?

    Willzoom never claimed his was new, I don't think.
    2010-08-29 07:09 AM
  6. jkmonkey's Avatar
    It would certainly explain why all these phones have shsh's saved, because there's no way around the fact that they wouldn't be able to downgrade if cydia didn't have them.
    2010-08-29 07:18 AM
  7. i.Annie's Avatar
    Makes sense finally...in a way, haha. Brand new phones without SHSHs just cant downgrade. Who can tell if a phone is refurbed or new, they look the same on the exterior and function correctly cuz it doesnt go out to a customer without a proper assessment of functionality.

    Edit: what I wanna know/see is if willzoom, if you dont mind sir, used TinyUmbrella to verify that no SHSHs for 4.0 or 4.0.1 are currently saved on the device. Cydia's report is inaccurate as I have found and TinyUmbrella is the more accurate way to determine whether or not the SHSHs are truly saved.

    Im so tempted to try a restore to 4.0 or 4.0.1 with my phone cuz I dont have any of those SHSHs saved :/

    You know...just to prove I cant without them :P

    Maybe Ill mess with my iPT for this since it has SHSHs for 4.0 but not 4.0.1...
    Last edited by i.Annie; 2010-08-29 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    2010-08-29 07:43 AM
  8. jkmonkey's Avatar
    I'm not saying that they're selling refurbs as new phones, but that maybe apple Is encoding NEW boards with ECID's from boards they are not putting back out as refurbs.

    Anniex there isn't a 4.0.1 for iPT's. As far as 4.x goes on iPods it's 4.0 and 4.0.2.
    Last edited by jkmonkey; 2010-08-29 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    2010-08-29 07:59 AM
  9. BCollins521's Avatar
    Wow this thread has been booming since yesterday, and from what I can gather my 3Gs did in fact have the SHSH blobs stored at some point in time vs not having them which is why I was able to downgrade. In fact I'm EXTREMELY thankful that it somehow was.

    From talking to the person that I purchased mine from said he purchased the phone 3 months ago and was the original owner. Now I don't know the person so I can't say it's truth or whatnot but just by going by him it would seem like somehow this device was a refurb maybe. I just checked the serial number of the device through Apple and it says that I'm under warranty til June 3, 2011. Which I guess no way of finding when it was registered but assuming a new device would carry a 1 year warranty this would almost fall in line with what he said so the post above about Apple reusing parts may could be the case.
    2010-08-29 07:59 AM
  10. i.Annie's Avatar
    I'm not saying that they're selling refurbs as new phones, but that maybe apple encoding NEW boards with ECID's from boards they are not putting back out as refurbs.

    Anniex there isn't a 4.0.1 for iPT's. As far as 4.x goes on iPods it's 4.0 and 4.0.2.
    Lol man Im tired. I just misread and misposted everything. Long day of work :/

    I dont use my iPT often lol. Didnt know that. How the hell are they gonna skip a fw for iPT?! Could I try going down to 3.1.x then, do they need SHSHs on a 2G iPT?
    2010-08-29 08:02 AM
  11. jkmonkey's Avatar
    There wasn't a 4.0.1 for iPods because all it did was change the signal display. So it would've done nothing on an iPod. As far as 3.1.3 on your iPod I think it depends on if yours is an mb or an mc. The mb's should be just like an iPhone 3G, so no shsh's needed for 3.x. The mc's I believe require shsh's for any fw, like a 3GS. Not entirely positive on that though. Lol
    2010-08-29 08:08 AM
  12. Trooper Sam's Avatar
    It'd be a heck of a revelation to find out that Apple did indeed sell refurbs as new. That'd be a BAD thing to get out in the US.

    My disclaimer, though, is that we have no actual proof of this. I am making no accusations. Libel is a nasty thing.
    2010-08-29 08:33 AM
  13. Orby's Avatar
    Here's a thought:

    Everybody who has SHSH blobs and did not consciously save them (no Umbrella, no Cydia "make my life easier, thanks!"), OR was able to downgrade your firmware without using Umbrella or Cydia in advance, mind answering a few questions for me?

    1) Would you kindly post the first five characters of your 3GS' serial number? These characters only signify which assembly line produced your device, and what week of what year. To prove how non-sensitive these characters are, here are all my iDevices:

    7R734
    5K752
    88820
    88941
    GB019
    87027

    2) Did you buy your 3GS from an Apple Store, an official reseller (Best Buy, Wal-Mart, AT&T, your local cellular carrier, etc.), or a third-party (friend, eBay, Craigslist, etc.)?

    3) Did you buy your 3GS as factory-new, factory-refurbished, or pre-owned?

    4) What capacity is your 3GS? What color is the back?

    I have a couple of hunches, and this survey (anecdotal information) might shed some more light on their validity. Thanks in advance everyone!
    2010-08-29 08:39 AM
  14. Dough Boy's Avatar
    1)5K0023
    2)Third party(friend)
    3)pre-owned
    4)16 gig, white

    AND for the third time called my buddy and confirmed he never did any of the methods posted by trooper earlier to save shsh's on cydias server which were:

    1. Press "make my life easier" in Cydia(He doesnt even know what cydia is)
    2. Use TinyUmbrella to do so(much less knows what this is)
    3. Connect to iTunes with the hosts file edited to point at Cydia and try to downgrade.(Never modified iTunes and wouldnt even do it because he is afraid to lose everything he purchased)

    He never let anyone borrow or mess with his iphone or iTunes.
    2010-08-29 08:59 AM
  15. xdethrok's Avatar
    So, I've been trying to find a way to downgrade my iPhone 3GS (new bootrom) for a few hours now, until I was lying down in bed and decided to Google on my phone. I stumbled on to this thread and started reading the replies, and I got curious, so I checked out the original thread.

    Now, I realize that this is my first post, but the whole reason I registered is to try and figure out how my downgrade just worked.

    What I did first was download Tiny Umbrella. I did what someone (I forgot who it was, and it's too late for me to bother to look back at the replies) said to check and see if the SHSH blobs were saved to the Cydia server. Tiny Umbrella told me that it had successfully saved my blobs for both 4.0 and 4.0.1, which means that they weren't there, correct?

    Anyways, the restore just finished. I used the firmware for 4.0.1 and lo and behold - my phone is now saying that I'm running on 4.0.1. Now, I'm not sure if from saving the SHSH blobs whilst on 4.0.2 means that I'm actually on 4.0.2, but my phone is saying 4.0.1.

    In order for me to continue - I'm just hoping someone can answer this for me: iTunes is asking me if I'd like to restore a backup or set it up as a new iPhone. Which option should I choose?

    And another question - what if I am actually running on 4.0.2 and I attempt to visit JailbreakMe's website? Will it be able to recognize that I'm not really on 4.0.1, or will it attempt to jailbreak and harm my phone?



    [EDIT] Oh, and before anyone asks: My phone is barely a month old. I purchased it myself from the AT&T store when I transferred over from T-Mobile. I have never attempted to jailbreak my phone and I have only used the iTunes store to get my apps and music. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x2] I just loaded up Tiny Umbrella and it is recognizing my phone as running 4.0.1. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x3] Due to the fact that I'm incredibly tired, I just went ahead and restored the backup which was saved from a few days ago, as I'm terrible at syncing. I am going to be attempting to jailbreak my phone now. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x4] My backup has completed. iTunes recognized my phone immediately as 4.0.1 and asked me to update. (http://i35.tinypic.com/30w15jo.png) As of right now, it is installing all of my apps and music again. If this actually somehow worked to downgrade my phone, I will attempt it tomorrow with my father's phone and try to take photos during every step of the process. His phone is also upgraded to 4.0.2 and he thought we were stuck until a new jailbreak was released. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x5] JailbreakMe.com. (http://i36.tinypic.com/beyqgy.png) I did not receive the message telling me that I couldn't jailbreak my phone. Oh, my gosh. The jailbreak really did work. I am glad I decided to stay up and risk my phone for this. As of right now, Cydia is telling me that my device has a pending TSS request. (http://i36.tinypic.com/301ev6s.png) Personally, I have no idea what that means. As I said above, I will check up on this thread tomorrow and look at any questions. I will be attempting to do the same with my father's phone. [/EDIT]
    Last edited by xdethrok; 2010-08-29 at 09:43 AM.
    2010-08-29 09:19 AM
  16. Orby's Avatar
    1)5K0023
    2)Third party(friend)
    3)pre-owned
    4)16 gig, white

    AND for the third time called my buddy and confirmed he never did any of the methods posted by trooper earlier to save shsh's on cydias server which were:

    1. Press "make my life easier" in Cydia(He doesnt even know what cydia is)
    2. Use TinyUmbrella to do so(much less knows what this is)
    3. Connect to iTunes with the hosts file edited to point at Cydia and try to downgrade.(Never modified iTunes and wouldnt even do it because he is afraid to lose everything he purchased)

    He never let anyone borrow or mess with his iphone or iTunes.
    Alright. Phones that start with "5K" in the serial number are Apple Refurbished phones. Your buddy's/your phone was refurbished fairly early in the 2nd week of 2010 (as in, it was one of the first 5000 or so phones refurbished that week judging by the three as the sixth character in the serial number).

    A refurbished phone almost never receives any new components to the logic board--only screens, batteries, back covers, and the like (along with a new, 5K serial number).

    Since no components on the logic board were likely changed (or specifically, the important piece, the processor was not), that ECID never changed from its first life as a new phone. It is entirely possible the previous owner of that phone (and there almost certainly was one) was a jailbreaker and backed up his blobs when they owned the phone. They carried over to your friend after the refurbishment (once Cydia/Umbrella is instructed to back up one set, it'll grab as many blobs as it can), and then onto you.

    Either that, or by dumb luck someone entered your ECID into Umbrella using Advanced Settings and saved your blobs before the window closed.

    What's weird though, that phone (according to a picture I remember seeing) only has 4.0 and later blobs showing in Cydia, right? If that's the case, first owner backup seems unlikely.

    So, I've been trying to find a way to downgrade my iPhone 3GS (new bootrom) for a few hours now, until I was lying down in bed and decided to Google on my phone. I stumbled on to this thread and started reading the replies, and I got curious, so I checked out the original thread.

    Now, I realize that this is my first post, but the whole reason I registered is to try and figure out how my downgrade just worked.

    What I did first was download Tiny Umbrella. I did what someone (I forgot who it was, and it's too late for me to bother to look back at the replies) said to check and see if the SHSH blobs were saved to the Cydia server. Tiny Umbrella told me that it had successfully saved my blobs for both 4.0 and 4.0.1, which means that they weren't there, correct?

    Anyways, the restore just finished. I used the firmware for 4.0.1 and lo and behold - my phone is now saying that I'm running on 4.0.1. Now, I'm not sure if from saving the SHSH blobs whilst on 4.0.2 means that I'm actually on 4.0.2, but my phone is saying 4.0.1.

    In order for me to continue - I'm just hoping someone can answer this for me: iTunes is asking me if I'd like to restore a backup or set it up as a new iPhone. Which option should I choose?

    And another question - what if I am actually running on 4.0.2 and I attempt to visit JailbreakMe's website? Will it be able to recognize that I'm not really on 4.0.1, or will it attempt to jailbreak and harm my phone?



    [EDIT] Oh, and before anyone asks: My phone is barely a month old. I purchased it myself from the AT&T store when I transferred over from T-Mobile. I have never attempted to jailbreak my phone and I have only used the iTunes store to get my apps and music. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x2] I just loaded up Tiny Umbrella and it is recognizing my phone as running 4.0.1. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x3] Due to the fact that I'm incredibly tired, I just went ahead and restored the backup which was saved from a few days ago, as I'm terrible at syncing. I am going to be attempting to jailbreak my phone now. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x4] My backup has completed. iTunes recognized my phone immediately as 4.0.1 and asked me to update. (http://i35.tinypic.com/30w15jo.png) As of right now, it is installing all of my apps and music again. If this actually somehow worked to downgrade my phone, I will attempt it tomorrow with my father's phone and try to take photos during every step of the process. His phone is also upgraded to 4.0.2 and he thought we were stuck until a new jailbreak was released. [/EDIT]

    [EDIT x5] JailbreakMe.com. (http://i36.tinypic.com/beyqgy.png) I did not receive the message telling me that I couldn't jailbreak my phone. Oh, my gosh. The jailbreak really did work. I am glad I decided to stay up and risk my phone for this. As of right now, Cydia is telling me that my device has a pending TSS request. (http://i36.tinypic.com/301ev6s.png) Personally, I have no idea what that means. As I said above, I will check up on this thread tomorrow and look at any questions. I will be attempting to do the same with my father's phone. [/EDIT]
    If I had to guess, you have an 8 GB new 3GS, correct? I'd love to see your Cydia screen showing which firmware blobs you have on file (when TSS Request Pending goes away, it'll disappear soon) at the top. Not because I doubt you succeeding in downgrading, but rather, I wonder how far back your blobs go...

    PS: If you get pissed at AT&T (odds are you will :P), you can take that phone back to T-Mobile by SIM unlocking it with ultrasn0w in Cydia. As long as you only restore to 4.0.1 in the future (which you can with blobs saved), your phone runs no risk of losing the jailbreak or the unlock (should you choose to do so).

    PPS: Good luck with your dad's phone. If it somehow has magically got blobs backed up (and therefore can be downgraded), there's a very unlikely "coincidence" going on here...
    2010-08-29 10:11 AM
  17. xdethrok's Avatar
    If I had to guess, you have an 8 GB new 3GS, correct? I'd love to see your Cydia screen showing which firmware blobs you have on file (when TSS Request Pending goes away, it'll disappear soon) at the top. Not because I doubt you succeeding in downgrading, but rather, I wonder how far back your blobs go...

    PS: If you get pissed at AT&T (odds are you will :P), you can take that phone back to T-Mobile by SIM unlocking it with ultrasn0w in Cydia. As long as you only restore to 4.0.1 in the future (which you can with blobs saved), your phone runs no risk of losing the jailbreak or the unlock (should you choose to do so).

    PPS: Good luck with your dad's phone. If it somehow has magically got blobs backed up (and therefore can be downgraded), there's a very unlikely "coincidence" going on here...
    It is indeed an 8GB 3GS. How long does it take for the pending TSS request to go away?

    Oh, and I was pissed off enough at T-Mobile, and I'll never go back to them. The service in my area is terrible and we couldn't even get signal at our house (they told us that we had conflicting towers and the phones were malfunctioning..?)

    [EDIT] Oh, and yes, it was a new 3GS. It wasn't a refurbished. [/EDIT]
    Last edited by xdethrok; 2010-08-29 at 10:35 AM.
    2010-08-29 10:17 AM
  18. Orby's Avatar
    It is indeed an 8GB 3GS. How long does it take for the pending TSS request to go away?

    Oh, and I was pissed off enough at T-Mobile, and I'll never go back to them. The service in my area is terrible and we couldn't even get signal at our house (they told us that we had conflicting towers and the phones were malfunctioning..?)

    [EDIT] Oh, and yes, it was a new 3GS. It wasn't a refurbished. [/EDIT]
    Fair enough, I've had the opposite experience myself, so it's worth knowing you always have the option. Choice is a good thing!
    --
    TSS Pending usually disappears in 48 hours or so. A quicker way to see what blobs you have on file is downloading Umbrella (The Firmware Umbrella) and manually checking what blobs Cydia has on file for you (go to Advanced Options with your 3GS plugged in to your computer, and go down the list of possibilities for 3GS firmwares, starting at 3.0. If Umbrella caches your blob locally, that means Cydia has it).

    Do the same with your other 3GS you want to downgrade, too--if it returns any other blobs than 4.0.2 it's downgrade-able (and this plot thickens).
    2010-08-29 10:52 AM
  19. xdethrok's Avatar
    Fair enough, I've had the opposite experience myself, so it's worth knowing you always have the option. Choice is a good thing!
    --
    TSS Pending usually disappears in 48 hours or so. A quicker way to see what blobs you have on file is downloading Umbrella (The Firmware Umbrella) and manually checking what blobs Cydia has on file for you (go to Advanced Options with your 3GS plugged in to your computer, and go down the list of possibilities for 3GS firmwares, starting at 3.0. If Umbrella caches your blob locally, that means Cydia has it).

    Do the same with your other 3GS you want to downgrade, too--if it returns any other blobs than 4.0.2 it's downgrade-able (and this plot thickens).
    Well, like I said, before I started the whole downgrade process, I downloaded Tiny Umbrella. I followed the steps from post #47 to check and see if there were, for some reason, any SHSH blobs already saved for my phone. When I did that, it said that my blobs were saved successfully for firmwares 4.0 and 4.0.1. Now, doesn't that mean that there weren't any previous blobs, else it would have given me the error message?

    Results from starting from 3.0:

    08/29/2010 03:00:25.039 CYDIA DOES NOT HAVE YOUR SHSH FOR iPhone3GS 3.0 (7A341) THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET THEM. SORRY. YOU ARE JUST TOO LATE.

    08/29/2010 03:02:29.573 CYDIA DOES NOT HAVE YOUR SHSH FOR iPhone3GS 3.0.1 (7A400) THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET THEM. SORRY. YOU ARE JUST TOO LATE.

    08/29/2010 03:03:57.255 CYDIA DOES NOT HAVE YOUR SHSH FOR iPhone3GS 3.1 (7C144) THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET THEM. SORRY. YOU ARE JUST TOO LATE.

    08/29/2010 03:05:13.910 CYDIA DOES NOT HAVE YOUR SHSH FOR iPhone3GS 3.1.2 (7D11) THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET THEM. SORRY. YOU ARE JUST TOO LATE.

    08/29/2010 03:06:18.855 CYDIA DOES NOT HAVE YOUR SHSH FOR iPhone3GS 3.1.3 (7E18) THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET THEM. SORRY. YOU ARE JUST TOO LATE.

    08/29/2010 03:06:40.046 SHSH SUCCESSFULLY saved! [Click Here to Open] 08/29/2010 03:06:40.055 You have saved your SHSH locally and the request was sent to CYDIA. This means that CYDIA DOES have your SHSH. Do NOT bug semaphore about the Cydia home page showing this version. (iPhone3GS 4.0)

    08/29/2010 03:07:27.624 SHSH SUCCESSFULLY saved! [Click Here to Open] 08/29/2010 03:07:27.630 You have saved your SHSH locally and the request was sent to CYDIA. This means that CYDIA DOES have your SHSH. Do NOT bug semaphore about the Cydia home page showing this version. (iPhone3GS 4.0.1)


    [EDIT] Tomorrow, I will be doing the same thing with my father's phone to see if there are any saved blobs. We all got iPhones at the same time when we switched to AT&T. I will provide pictures for every step. [/EDIT]
    Last edited by xdethrok; 2010-08-29 at 11:15 AM.
    2010-08-29 11:11 AM
  20. PainWizard's Avatar
    Experts,

    I did the downgrade 4.0.2 to 4.0.1 without saved SHSH blobs, here is the proof. I kept TinyUmbrella running the whole time. I have screenshots of the whole log during the upgrade, but this one shows everything you need to see for proof.

    I did it in these steps:

    1) Read Doughboys post, didn't really believe him (sorry Doughboy!), but given my iPhone is brand new and I have really nothing to lose I gave it a shot

    2) Downloaded both TinyUmbrella and 4.0.1 firmware from this site

    3) Followed all instructions exactly as they are in the video

    4) Went into iPhone JailbreakMe


    I don't have a theory how this worked but I can guarentee there are no SHSH blobs saved for me; look at the screenshot.

    If you want me to provide additional proof or help figure out how this worked I will be happy to.

    (PS. If you want me to take SS of my iPhone I need instructions on how to do this....)
    Attached Thumbnails PICS of CYDIA. downgraded from 4.0.2 to 4.0.1 wihtout saved shsh files. IT WORKS!-screenhunter_14-aug.-29-17.56.gif  
    2010-08-29 02:18 PM
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